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Talk:Scarlet Queen
References, please? I'm very wary about this article, particularly the parts about the Scarlet Queen and Ebon Dragon having created the Imbued and the Scarlet Queen having been one of the Fallen. Can we back this up with book references, please? --Ian 20:46, 14 February 2006 (UTC) The Messengers' true identities are revealed in Hunter: The Storyteller's Guide. Ziana and her transformation into the World Tree are mentioned in Houses of the Fallen. Noneofoyourbusiness 19:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)Noneofyourbusiness 22:41, 2/14/2006 In Days of Fire Lucifer mentions that the Ebon Dragon and Scarlet Queen are the last remaining angels on Earth. Noneofoyourbusiness 19:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC) Noneofyourbusiness 14:01, 15 February 2006. : I don't know about Houses of the Fallen or Days of Fire, but the Storyteller's Handbook is very, very vague - and vague on purpose. It speaks of "Ministers" who work for a now-distant "Creator" - they're clearly meant to be angels, but they're also characterised in all Hunter material as being distant - not "on Earth". I don't think the Queen and the Dragon are definitely the creators of the Imbued, though it is plausible; are your other sources explicit, or are you joining dots? Sure, the Messengers are Ministers of the Creator, and so probably angels; and yes, Lucifer says the Ebon Dragon and Scarlet Queen are the last two angels on Earth; but it doesn't follow that they created the Imbued, particularly since the Storyteller's Handbook indicates there are two factions of Ministers, not merely two individuals. -- Guybrush 03:07, 18 February 2006 (UTC) :: The ST Handbook indicates that the Ministers represent the active and passive forces which make creation work. This could be taken to mean that there's two of them, or two factions. And certainly the Scarlet Queen and Ebon Dragon represent those forces. Days of Fire claims that "two Angels shall turn their ears and hear./One a woman of scarlet lights/The other a beast of sheltered shadows./They shall spark, and breathe, and illuminate/And those who feel, and hear, and see, shall be infused/These Bright Shiners come forth to witness, in the last days and final nights." Other Demon material refers to the imbued as Bright Shiners. Again, it's not an explicit reference, but it's definitely inferred. :: If you like, you can feel free to fix the article up and make it more evident that it's never explictly stated, although it is strongly implied. :: This definitely drives home the importance of including book/page references in the article, though. I mean, nothing says "bwuhuh?" like saying the Scarlet Queen of Kindred of the East is responsible for the imbued, although evidence certainly does seem to point that way. --Ian 04:26, 18 February 2006 (UTC) ::: All good points. I guess I just don't want readers to feel they've missed something because we state something as plain fact which requires knowledge of several game lines and which was never explicitly stated in any case. I'll reword the article, but only a bit. -- Guybrush 05:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC) :::: ...ending up being more than a bit, mainly because of the Hengeyokai perspective, though the information content hasn't changed. Thanks for your improvements, guys. -- Guybrush 03:35, 19 February 2006 (UTC) ::::: Okay, I get that the Scarlet Queen is the same as from Kindred of the East as well as one of the two Messengers of the Hunters; that part is made as clear as just about anything in the original World of Darkness. But what I don't get is where it's said that Ziana is the Scarlet Queen? I just reread the appropriate section in Houses of the Fallen, and that connection is not intimated in the slightest. So while it's nice that we have a reference for Ziana becoming the World Tree, we lack a reference for Ziana being related whatsoever to the Scarlet Queen. Lostdrewid 12:48, June 7, 2011 (UTC)